Ôîðóì » Foreign section » Galliformes and other animals for South America (ïðîäîëæåíèå) » Îòâåòèòü
Galliformes and other animals for South America (ïðîäîëæåíèå)
JOrnitho: Hello! I'm back with ideas for some new species for South America. I found in my computer an archive with some ideas for fauna and flora that I had some time ago and decided to show there to ask your opinion about them. The first is about a descendant of the domestic chicken. [more]Copper jacumitan (Jacumita cuprinus) During the Holocene, the man introduced many species in other continents. The jacumitan is a descendant of domestic chicken (Gallus gallus domesticus) that are introduced in South America. It replaced the birds in the family Cracidae, which are extinct in the Neocene, in some areas. In a matter of fact, the name jacumitan is the junction of the words jacu, the popular name in Brazil for guans of the Genus Penelope, and the tupi word mitã (mitan) that means new, this way the name means “new guan”. The copper jacumitan is the type species of this genus and lives in the savannas and woodlands of Central South America. The copper jacumitan is sexually dysmorphic. The male measure 190 cm, due to the long tail, it has a bright coppery brown upperbody plumage and reddish-brown feathers below. They also have metallic dark green feathers on the tail and wings. Only males have a bright red naked skin on the face, with two wattles that conceal the sides of its head. This characteristic is shared by all males of the genus Jacumita. The males of the genus also have crests formed by white feathers with black tips. During courtship and panic moments, they rise the crests. The females have 75 cm of length and are cryptic brown and adapted to camouflage, its naked skin on the face is pale pink and don’t have flesh wattles. The young males are similar to the females until they reach 9 weeks, at this time the wattle begin to develop. Both sexes have long orange colored legs and grey beak. The males have spurs that they use in fights for dominance. The neck is long and slim. Copper jacumitans can fly, but prefer to run from the predators flying only as last resort. These birds are omnivorous and feed on insects, seeds, and fruits. Its forage for food by scratching the ground, usually near herbivores this way there is other animals observing for the presence of predators. Often the male sits on a high perch, to serve as a lookout for his group. He sounds an alarm call if predators are nearby. At night it will sleep perched on branches. Copper jacumitans are polygamous; the male will have a harem with 5 to 12 females and will guards the area where his females are nesting, and attack other males that enter his territory. To initiate courting, the males will dance in a circle around or near a female, raising their crests and lowering the wing which is closest to the hen. Then, he will vocalize and when she responds to his call, the male will mount her and proceed with the mating. The females make their nest in the ground, laying 6 to 14 red eggs which are incubated for 22 days. Chicks are precocious, leaving the nest shortly they are born. They fledge in about 4 to 5 weeks, and at 13 weeks old are chased out of the group by their mother, at which point the young males start to form a harem and the females join an existing one. Sexual maturity is reached at 6 months and the lifespan of this species is of 13 years, however is common for males to die early due to predation. Other species in the genus Jacumita are: Golden jacumitan (Jacumita aurea) Living in the forests of the Atlantic coast of South America, the males of this species has 200 cm of length, from beak to tail, while the females have 83 cm. The plumage of the male have a bright golden-yellow plumage in the upperparts, being scarlet in the chest and belly. They have dark metallic green wing feathers and tail while the female is cryptic brown. Red jacumitan (Jacumita amazonica) Living in the "terra firme" forests of the Amazon , the males of this species has 185 cm of length, from beak to tail, while females have 70 cm. The plumage of male is bright orange-red in the upperparts, while their chest and belly is yellow. The males also have dark metallic blue wing feathers and tail while the female is cryptic brown. Andean jacumitan (Jacumita andina) Living in the highland forests in the slopes of the Andes, the males of this species has 170 cm of length, from beak to tail, while females have 68 cm. The plumage of the males is white in the upperparts and yellowish-red in the belly and chest. The males also have dark metallic blue wing feathers and tail while the female is cryptic brown. This other one is about a descendant of the californian quail: Common austral grouse (Tetraoinus australis) During the Holocene, the man introduced many exotic species different habitats, the ancestor of the austral grouse was one of these species. Their ancestor was not a true grouse, but the Californian quail, due to evolutionary convergence they acquired characteristics similar to the true grouses of North America. Living in the forests of Southern South America, the male austral grouse are 55 cm long and the female have 44 cm of length. The male have a dark grey body plumage, black-and-white bridled head pattern, black back and a greyish-blue belly. They have a curving crest or plume, made of six feathers that droops forward (long and black in males /short and brown in females) and long forked blackish tail with white undertail coverts. Females and immature birds are mainly greyish-brown with a light-brown belly. Both sexes have a black bill and relatively long grey legs. Their diet consists mainly of seeds and leaves, but they also eat some berries and insects. In some regions their main source of food are the seeds of trees of the Genus Araucaria. These birds are not elegant fliers, however they sleep perched in branches. Given a choice, they will normally escape on foot. During the courtship, the male austral grouse do displays on a lek, each male have a “personal space”. The males strut around their chose space, doing a display. The display consists of the male posturing himself with the head near the ground. Then, they start to move it from right to left showing their crests, simultaneously they raising the tail feathers, showing their withe undertail coverts. After that, they will raise their heads abruptly and whilst make a highly distinctive mating call. When another male invade the personal space of other, a fight happens, in this case the male will try to take of the crest of the rival, this way they will not be capable to display for the females. The female usually lays approximately 12 spotted eggs. The nest is a shallow scrape lined with vegetation on the ground. Incubation lasts from 21–25 days, usually performed by the female and rarely by the male. The chicks are precocial, leaving the nest with their parents within hours of hatching. The male stay with the female until the young leave, with 3 months. The young reach sexual maturity with 1 year, with this age the young males acquire the coloration of an adult male. Their lifespan is of 27 years. In the forests of Tierra del Fuego another species lives, the Black boreal grouse (Tetraoinus nigrus). Their main difference to the other species is that the males have an all-black plumage, with only a faint shade of blue in the chest and brown undertail coverts. The females are similar to that of the common austral grouse. The males have 52 cm and the females 41 cm.[/more] I also have in this archive some names for possible species that I never developed bayond some few facts. Maybe someone could help me make their descriptions.
wovoka: ìåäâåäü ïèøåò: A good idea! I will describe it when I will have more time. Ok, thank you!
JOrnitho: wovoka ïèøåò: But I want to have in chapter also descendent of lycalopex griseus. That's why I proposed: "To make it an analogue of omnivorous and maybe twilight Chrysocyon brachyurus (but just more massive) and with color of Cross fox? It will be fast enough to hunt these cursorial roddents, but also could eat other small and medium animals: mammals, birds (their eggs), reptilians, amphibians and even invertebrates and also fruits, berries, some edible plants, mushrooms" I think so we can share ecologically this new animal and uecubu. Yes, the difference in niches between the two animals would allow them to live together. The descendant of the Lycalopex griseus could very well be the new Chrysocyon brachyurus, perhaps even living in the savannas. What do you think of it having dense fur around the neck? Like a collie dog, but shorter. wovoka ïèøåò: As you wish! But why you decided to replace the sungrebe? I thought that would be interesting to have a species that was once from cold regions and migrated to the region to flee the Ice Age. We can still find a way to use the sungrebe. Any ideas? Could it be restricted to the delta, while the loon lives in brackish and coastal areas?
ìåäâåäü: But loons did not move to South America during the last ice age. And they are pretty cold-tolerant.
JOrnitho: ìåäâåäü ïèøåò: But loons did not move to South America during the last ice age. And they are pretty cold-tolerant I thought that becuaase the Gavia inner migrates to Florida, so I thought that some individuals could have reaced South America. However, if it's implausible, we can have the sungrebe in this place. What do you think of a large sungrebe adapted to living in brackish water and coastal areas? The folds of skin that they have under their wings in which they carry their young from hatching until the chicks are able to swim also makes them more interesting than loons.
wovoka: JOrnitho ïèøåò: What do you think of it having dense fur around the neck? Like a collie dog. It will be interesting detail of the appearance of the animal! JOrnitho ïèøåò: I thought that would be interesting to have a species that was once from cold regions and migrated to the region to flee the Ice Age. Yes, I agree it's a good proposition! JOrnitho ïèøåò: Could it be restricted to the delta, while the loon lives in brackish and coastal areas? Yes of course! Also the may have different diet. ìåäâåäü ïèøåò: But loons did not move to South America during the last ice age. And they are pretty cold-tolerant. JOrnitho is talking about the descendent of Gavia immer, and I'm not sure in there absolute cold-tolerance if they can wintering in South California or Florida. Maybe representatives of the most southern populations during the ice age flew for wintering not to Florida, but to Lake Maracaibo, and some of them remained to live on the lake, that rich in all kinds of tasty living creatures. There they formed a new population, which evolved in Neocene, forming a new species - Wakola. Is it impossible?
ìåäâåäü: However, if it's implausible, we can have the sungrebe in this place. What do you think of a large sungrebe adapted to living in brackish water and coastal areas? Wikipedia says that sungrebes have problems with dispersing over saltwater, so they may not like coasts so much. But it is interesting, so if you have a solution to this problem, then why not? Maybe representatives of the most southern populations during the ice age flew for wintering not to Florida, but to Lake Maracaibo, and some of them remained to live on the lake, that rich in all kinds of tasty living creatures. There they formed a new population, which evolved in Neocene, forming a new species - Wakola. Is it impossible? Loons usually make their nest no farther than 0,5 m from the water`s edge, so they cannot nest on the shores of a waterbody with water level changing much due to tides. The laughterloon can crawl a bit better on land because of its strong wings, but the traditional loons cannot.
wovoka: ìåäâåäü Yes, these are serious remarks and should be considered. In Maracaibo region also live Cebus albifrons and Procyon cancrivorus. We can make them more aquatic: Capuchin monkeys make like Nasalis larvatus or Macaca fuscata or at least like Allenopithecus nigroviridis. And raccoon could occupy an interesting niche that no one had previously occupied: big water bear - a beast the size of a hippopotamus, but not herbivorous but predatory, eating any life creature which can catch. Or it can be like ambulocetus: large ambush aquatic predator. But for that we should annihilate in the lake region Caiman crocodilus.
JOrnitho: ìåäâåäü I'll need to think about the sungrebe. Perhaps they developed a large gland capable of removing salt from their food? This species could have a knob to house said gland. Regarding the loons, I thought that they could nest at the delta or inside Catatumbo River. They could use the strategy of making floating nests connected to the vegetation of the shore. wovoka ïèøåò: Capuchin monkeys make like Nasalis larvatus or Macaca fuscata or at least like Allenopithecus nigroviridis. I like it! They could swim to take shellfish and use rocks to break it. wovoka ïèøåò: And raccoon could occupy an interesting niche that no one had previously occupied: big water bear - a beast the size of a hippopotamus, but not herbivorous but predatory, eating any life creature which can catch. Or it can be like ambulocetus: large ambush aquatic predator. But for that we should annihilate in the lake region Caiman crocodilus. Aren't some large caimans and crocodiles extinct in the Neocene? Perhaps the species of Maracaibo were among the unfortunate ones that disappeared. Since it would be a ambush predator, what if it became an analogue to the Ambulocetus? If this idea is too crazy, we can have a giant caiman living in the region.
wovoka: JOrnitho ïèøåò: I'll need to think about the sungrebe. Perhaps they developed a large gland capable of removing salt from their food? This species could have a knob to house said gland. Regarding the loons, I thought that they could nest at the delta or inside Catatumbo River. They could use the strategy of making floating nests connected to the vegetation of the shore. I like the ideas, but let's listen to the arguments of Ìåäâåäü, he is real specialist in birds. JOrnitho ïèøåò: I like it! They could swim to take shellfish and use rocks to break it. Will we make them big noses like have diving Nasalis larvatus? JOrnitho ïèøåò: Since it would be a ambush predator, what if it became an analogue to the Ambulocetus? If this idea is too crazy, we can have a giant caiman living in the region. I prefer Ambulocetus. In portrait of Earth written: Ground-dwelling caimans, the representatives of declining order of crocodiles, are analogues of monitor lizards and inhabit pampas and light forests. So according to canon, there is no any crocodiles or caimans in Maracaibo region.
ìåäâåäü: Regarding the loons, I thought that they could nest at the delta or inside Catatumbo River. They could use the strategy of making floating nests connected to the vegetation of the shore Most loons are too heavy to build floating nests. However, the largest species of grebe, the great grebe (Podiceps major) weighs 1,6 to 2 kg and overlaps in weight with the smallest loon species, the red-throated loon (Gavia stellata), which weighs 1-2,7 kg. But you want to use the common loon (Gavia immer) in which even the smallest individuals weigh about 2,2 kg, the average weight being about 4,5 kg for females and about 5,5 kg in males. It must become sufficiently lighter, otherwise floating nests are out of question. Meanwhile, how high tides are there in the said place? In Maracaibo region also live Cebus albifrons and Procyon cancrivorus. We can make them more aquatic: Capuchin monkeys make like Nasalis larvatus or Macaca fuscata or at least like Allenopithecus nigroviridis. As far as I know most or all New World monkeys cannot really swim.
JOrnitho: wovoka ïèøåò: Will we make them big noses like have diving Nasalis larvatus? I don’t think that it would be necessary. They could remain like a Cebus, but with a different lifestyle. Would they be larger than their ancestors or the have the same size? wovoka ïèøåò: I prefer Ambulocetus. Same. This species would be more interesting for the chapter, rather than having a common caiman. ìåäâåäü ïèøåò: It must become sufficiently lighter, otherwise floating nests are out of question. Do you think that would possible for them to become smaller? The isolation from their ancestors and possible the effect of Bergman' rule (organisms in higher latitudes should be larger than those in lower ones). If it isn’t possible, maybe we can still have a grebe. Is there any species living in the region of Lake Maracaibo? ìåäâåäü ïèøåò: Meanwhile, how high tides are there in the said place? In the present, the highest tide is of 0.6m.
wovoka: JOrnitho ïèøåò: If it isn’t possible, maybe we can still have a grebe. Is there any species living in the region of Lake Maracaibo? Tachybaptus dominicus and Podilymbus podiceps JOrnitho ïèøåò: Would they be larger than their ancestors or the have the same size? Before answer this question we should decide what will be the style of their life and what will be there diet. ìåäâåäü ïèøåò: As far as I know most or all New World monkeys cannot really swim. According to this article https://bioone.org/journals/neotropical-primates/volume-21/issue-2/044.021.0210/Report-of-a-Black-Spider-Monkey-iAteles-chamek-i-Swimming/10.1896/044.021.0210.full There are three american monkeys that can swim Alouatta palliata (the closest to Maracaibo, but vulnerable), Cacajao melanocephulus (also live in Venezuela but in the south regions, maybe it can migrate to Maracaibo), Ateles chamek (too far from Maracaibo). Also there written Some platyrrhines, such as Cebus, Cacajao, Aotus, and Saimiri, can inhabit or use swamps and seasonally flooded areas, but they do not swim between habitat patches. I think Cebus albifrons may first of all become swamp monkeys and then gradually, million years after a million, slowly learn to swim. JOrnitho I also thinking about the bestiary of salt lake Mar Chiquita (especially I like that this lake has an island El Mistolar). We have already decided to settle there jaguar like descendant of Geoffroy's cat - Tapiraiaura. And I think that there can be aquatic descendant of maikong analogue of Arctocephalus galapagoensis. Then it we call charaba - cacique in the languge sanavirona. The mammals are living there (except two species that we have already chosen): 1. Coypu - we can make protoalgocetus - transitional from Coypu to algocetus. 2. Holochilus brasiliensis - we can make something more aquatic with this animal 3. Tuco-tuco - we can do something with it. 4. Lycalopex gymnocercus 5. Puma - is already evolve in neocene to Felinoraptor 6. Jaguarundi 7. Leopardus pajeros 8. Procyon cancrivorus 9. Noctilio leporinus - fish eating bat. It is interesting to evolve this animal. I have no ideas about the evolution of non highlighted in color mammals. Lontra longicaudis, Tamandua tetradactyla, Myrmecophaga tridactyla, Chrysocyon brachyurus - extinct in Neocene Here the book about this lake and we can chose fishes, amphibians, reptiles, birds and invertebrates for the chapter https://cloudflare-ipfs.com/ipfs/bafykbzacec5vnrirrrxnuvg4xjnhwlmvovdkxbrjxq3z3djtp2zxjhoiwrrbu?filename=Enrique%20H.%20Bucher%20-%20The%20Mar%20Chiquita%20Salt%20Lake%20%28C%C3%B3rdoba%2C%20Argentina%29_%20Ecology%20and%20Conservation%20of%20the%20Largest%20Salt%20Lake%20in%20South%20America-Springer%20International%20Publishing%20%282019%29.pdf I like Salvator merianae - may be we can make a caiman like form? And I like Bothrops alternatus - water viper snake. The Phoenicoparrus of the lake are Vulnerable They sure will extinct to neocene. May be some bird of the lake can replace them? May be Cygnus melacoryphus? There are a lot of Egretta thula there, how can it evolve? Study the book, please, choose who you want for the chapter...
JOrnitho: wovoka ïèøåò: Tachybaptus dominicus and Podilymbus podiceps Both are interesting, which one do you thing that could be the ancestor of a species adapted to brackish water? wovoka ïèøåò: The mammals are living there (except two species that we have already chosen): 1. Coypu - we can make protoalgocetus - transitional from Coypu to algocetus. 2. Holochilus brasiliensis - we can make something more aquatic with this animal 3. Tuco-tuco - we can do something with it. 4. Lycalopex gymnocercus 5. Puma - is already evolve in neocene to Felinoraptor 6. Jaguarundi 7. Leopardus pajeros 8. Procyon cancrivorus 9. Noctilio leporinus - fish eating bat. It is interesting to evolve this animal. The coypu can be like a Prorastomus, with functional legs. Holochilus could be an otter like rodent, unless there is already something similar in the region. Lycalopex gymnocercus could have remained with its niche, perhaps acting like a jackal. The tuco-tuco could evolve to become large like a marmot. I'll need to think about the rest. What do you think of a vulture adapted to live in the cold areas of Patagonia and around this lake? It could be a descendant of the Cathartes aura. wovoka ïèøåò: The Phoenicoparrus of the lake are Vulnerable They sure will extinct to neocene Maybe they are replaced by Phoenicopterus? This species is Near Threatened, so they have a better chance of surviving. With the extinction of Phoenicoparrus, these flamings could take the niche left by the other species. wovoka ïèøåò: Study the book, please, choose who you want for the chapter... I'll read it.
ìåäâåäü: Do you think that would possible for them to become smaller? The isolation from their ancestors and possible the effect of Bergman' rule (organisms in higher latitudes should be larger than those in lower ones) In the winter, common loons usually move southwards just far enough to reach non-frozen waterbodies. And I doubt that lakes of Florida would freeze even during the ice age. They also have high breeding site fidelity. which one do you thing that could be the ancestor of a species adapted to brackish water? I think the latter. Even nowadays it is occasionally found in salt water.
wovoka: JOrnitho ïèøåò: Both are interesting, which one do you thing that could be the ancestor of a species adapted to brackish water? I don't good specialist in birds. May be Ìåäâåäü will help us again? JOrnitho ïèøåò: The coypu can be like a Prorastomus, with functional legs. Wow, it's a very cool idea! JOrnitho ïèøåò: Holochilus could be an otter like rodent There is a mistake in the book. The English name of the rodent Chacoan marsh rat - it's Holochilus chacarius, but the latin name in the book Holochilus brasiliensis. It is absolutely different animal. I think it's really Holochilus chacarius live in the lake. This animal is herbivorous and couldn't be like otter. So he more likely would be like coypus or muskrat. But to be honest it is a little bit boring. May be we can design some other niche for it? JOrnitho ïèøåò: Lycalopex gymnocercus could have remained with its niche, perhaps acting like a jackal. May be it be acting like Cuon alpinus (and form of the body will be similar) and with color like Lycaon pictus? JOrnitho ïèøåò: The tuco-tuco could evolve to become large like a marmot. I think it would be before evolving swimming tuco-tuco as Ctenomys lewisi or Ctenomys fulvus https://www.zobodat.at/pdf/Zeitschrift-Saeugetierkunde_53_0011-0021.pdf and can became social like Ctenomys sociabilis, and so it evolve into "social semiaquatic marmot" JOrnitho ïèøåò: Maybe they are replaced by Phoenicopterus? Yes, Phoenicopterus ruber can replace them. But if it extinct too, then according to the last genetic research the closest genetic relatives of flamingos are grebes: There are five species of grebes in Mar Chiquita: Podilymbus podiceps Pied-billed grebe Tachybaptus dominicus Least grebe Rollandia Rolland White-tufted grebe Podiceps major Great grebe Podiceps occipitalis Southern Silvery grebe They all have good chance to survive! May be Phoenicopterus ruber will not extinct, but don't reach the lake and we can take one of the grebes to make flamingo-like grebes grebingo
JOrnitho: ìåäâåäü ïèøåò: I think the latter. Even nowadays it is occasionally found in salt water. Then it'll be Podilymbus podiceps. wovoka ïèøåò: There is a mistake in the book. The English name of the rodent Chacoan marsh rat - it's Holochilus chacarius, but the latin name in the book Holochilus brasiliensis. It is absolutely different animal. I think it's really Holochilus chacarius live in the lake. This animal is herbivorous and couldn't be like otter. So he more likely would be like coypus or muskrat. But to be honest it is a little bit boring. May be we can design some other niche for it? Probably the population here was reclassified. Since the local coypu is going to be a basal form of algocetus, the Holochilus could replace them as the local large water rat. Or it could remain with the same niche, but with the webbing in the feet more developed. A diving rat that search for algae and plants underwater. Perhaps a local plant could offer a food source that makes diving necessary. wovoka ïèøåò: May be it be acting like Cuon alpinus (and form of the body will be similar) and with color like Lycaon pictus? I think that it would need to be smaller and not like the dhole, the uktenas already live here. However, in sone parts of Asia Cuon alpinus and wolves share habitats. Do you know how their interactions and niche avoidance happens? It could be similar in Patagonia. The color is a good idea. wovoka ïèøåò: May be Phoenicopterus ruber will not extinct, but don't reach the lake and we can take one of the grebes to make flamingo-like grebes grebingo I like the name , but would the grebes be able to evolve to fill the niche of flamingos? They have very different adaptations. Would it be a grebe that becomes pink by feeding of local crustaceans or is it capable of filtering the water to take food from it?
JOrnitho: wovoka ïèøåò: May be we can design some other niche for it? I had a new idea. What if the Holochilus becomes like a beaver,? We could think in a way that they could build something that could change the environment that they live, like the dams of beavers.
ëÿãóøêà: JOrnitho What if the Holochilus No, I think that coypu will be better ancestor of "false beaver".
JOrnitho: ëÿãóøêà ïèøåò: No, I think that coypu will be better ancestor of "false beaver". What do you think of the coypu being the "false beaver" and building huts, while the Holochilus becomes some sort of a "renter"? It would live inside the coypu's huits, but we can give it some more interesting characteristics.
wovoka: JOrnitho, I'm sorry, I'll be busy these days. I'll ask you in Wednesday evening. Ok?
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